tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post3709906471874398852..comments2023-11-03T01:45:11.288-07:00Comments on Lost Garden: Flash Love Letter (2009) Part 1Daniel Cookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10437870541630835660noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-10367969168422064792010-12-21T04:53:21.679-08:002010-12-21T04:53:21.679-08:00Hi there, I just started reading but a couple imag...Hi there, I just started reading but a couple images on your post won't show up. When I try to see them on a new tab (using Chrome), it shows a Google Docs permission error.<br /><br />Ecosystem - http://docs.google.com/drawings/image?id=shq4mHbFncv08k7oJdD0i8A&w=600&h=600&rev=20&ac=1&copy=1<br />and Solution - http://docs.google.com/drawings/image?id=sbOflQwb70tu8THkZBPB1jg&w=600&h=600&rev=573&ac=1&copy=1Johnny Cioccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14667514752477967977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-46025501873780882132009-12-31T21:26:15.006-08:002009-12-31T21:26:15.006-08:00Hello Danc,
I am a student from Australia and I ha...Hello Danc,<br />I am a student from Australia and I have recently been working on a Flash Game project. The premise is fairly simple, it is basically a 'Tanks' style game (heavily inspired by the old DOS game Scorched Earth) but it is played over the internet.<br /><br />By winning rounds players earn money with which they can buy extra weapons or shields.<br /><br />What I plan to do is have 5 or 6 'Member Only' weapons that become available to players after a once off payment of $5 or so.<br /><br />The problem is that this is my first time trying to sell anything from a Flash game so I'm not sure on some of the finer points of this plan. Having read your article I thought I might ask you for some advice as you have obviously given this a lot more thought than most people.<br /><br />The game is available (although it is still a work in progress, there are a few bugs I need to fix) here: www.onlinetanks.com.<br /><br />What I want to know is am I giving away too little for people who pay? am I charging too much or too little? And how do I go about marketing the game? How can I bring people to my site? Does it have any potential at all? Should I give up now?<br /><br />Any advice would be greatly appreciated.<br /><br />Adam<br />(adamtwardle@gmail.com)Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10001238034342094860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-2263614722644434902009-12-13T07:15:06.935-08:002009-12-13T07:15:06.935-08:00I have a portal that i would appreciate comments o...I have a portal that i would appreciate comments on and you folks seem to be the bunch to ask.<br /><br /><a href="http://arcade.administrative-systems.co.uk" rel="nofollow">ASUK Arcade</a><br /><br />I have it monitised with MochiAds is there better out there and what are they?<br /><br />cheers,<br /><br />Robert CraigRobert Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02884540749305796599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-64318771763280182532009-10-30T12:27:14.979-07:002009-10-30T12:27:14.979-07:00top artical danc, well done excelent readtop artical danc, well done excelent readbunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08380883340614871839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-43171215658424430112009-10-26T02:39:13.309-07:002009-10-26T02:39:13.309-07:00Dear Welcome! I definitely agree that many flash d...Dear Welcome! I definitely agree that many flash developers undervalue their work. I also think that it is sad that it often seems to make more sense to work for someone else (e.g. an ad agency) than to build your own ideas. Building your own ideas might be more profitable in the longer run (as well as more rewarding) but it's hard to take that risk when the alternative is a guaranteed income for working 9-5. I also don't think it's restricted to just flash games development, other areas of flash (and web in general) development suffer from the same issue.Prachi Jatinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01784399551528484354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-46621622757926759852009-10-16T14:19:37.422-07:002009-10-16T14:19:37.422-07:00I love this article, and I especially love the ide...I love this article, and I especially love the idea of tracking player actions to amp up the fun factor. I started playing with this and worked up a good way to track player actions using Clicky. If you like, you can <a href="http://www.egoant.com/tutorials/10-flash-games/41-getting-clicky-with-flash-game-tracking.html" rel="nofollow">read my tutorial</a> on how to implement it.EgoAnthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14093609312631355102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-49723850003045116232009-09-04T04:56:08.165-07:002009-09-04T04:56:08.165-07:00very good and interesting article !very good and interesting article !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-26312232892914582732009-08-31T06:04:01.078-07:002009-08-31T06:04:01.078-07:00SlawDog, Axcho, Keith, andrew, Phil Peron, and eve...SlawDog, Axcho, Keith, andrew, Phil Peron, and everyone above who mentioned developing a portal for high-end flash games<br /><br />I would be very interested in working on something like this, and I believe I have something to bring to the table. For a Flash-based game that I am working on, I have developed technology to deliver my code in a way that I believe would be very hard to break.<br /><br />As a developer myself, I would really like a portal "by developers for developers", and I think it could be wildly succesful.Nicholas Silvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00880934665743839374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-87706538108429063582009-08-28T09:13:48.766-07:002009-08-28T09:13:48.766-07:00I really enjoyed reading. Hopefully you'll tak...I really enjoyed reading. Hopefully you'll take a sec to give my blogs a quick look!M.C. Inc.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11394201087101294873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-33654309974127599912009-08-27T14:36:02.054-07:002009-08-27T14:36:02.054-07:00<3<3<3
Thanks so much! I've been wor...<3<3<3<br /><br />Thanks so much! I've been worried lately that the market was drying up and that subsisting on ad revenue alone was probably a pipe-dream.<br /><br />As always we all owe you a debt of gratitude for taking the time to put together this thoughtful and well researched summary.<br /><br />I wonder if tailoring your Flash project into a releasable PC port would be a viable option for a start-up?<br /><br />I think that self advertising and a slick web-portal are perhaps the best ways to ensure that the content(your latest game) is first and foremost in the page layout.<br /><br />Viral marketing and youtube videos are something that I want to explore as we launch our first games. I'm not sure how much traffic it could draw but I believe you could see a potential market spring out of a few quirky videos.<br /><br />Obviously you want to spend the bulk of your time making good games (we are game makers, not merchandisers after all), however, self promotion is probably much more effective from a cost standpoint. As well it allows you to control the visibility of the product initially.<br /><br />Cheers again!Anaxymander Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10104148870126295874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-10516462739373120082009-08-15T17:04:34.461-07:002009-08-15T17:04:34.461-07:00Excellent article, with some very valuable observa...Excellent article, with some very valuable observations. While the Drunken Masters micropayment setup was more of an experiment than a real attempt at monetization (I still think advertising and sponsorships are the best for this medium), your analysis was 100% dead on.<br /><br />I'm still not convinced that micropayments could outperform advertising (not that they're mutually exclusive, but I think that a game that reserves most of its content for paid players is likely to get far smaller distribution and far fewer ad impressions), but I'm sure that if I ever do go down that road again, I'll be using the information in this article when I'm planning the marketing.<br /><br />Thanks a lot for this, there's really not enough business information out there for aspiring flash game developers, especially as complete and in-depth as this.<br /><br />-Dan HoelckDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02205091505439274478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-20640843432776226062009-08-12T12:15:46.734-07:002009-08-12T12:15:46.734-07:00Brilliant just brilliant! I'm currently in dev...Brilliant just brilliant! I'm currently in development of a game i've been working on for 2 years with a programmer friend of mine. So far we've been working merely with passion, not expecting to earn much, maybe $5-10,000 with sponsorship and add revenue. I'm so glad I read this article its really opened my eyes. Were going to try to apply these techniques, especially bonus content. We'll let you know how it goes :PAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16413745296527431737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-83865193675974008052009-08-06T09:38:29.276-07:002009-08-06T09:38:29.276-07:00Nice article, but your "black triangle" ...Nice article, but your "black triangle" point was actually the opposite of the point the article you linked to was making. They took months to get a black triangle on the screen which proved their production pipeline worked soup-to-nuts. By the end of the day they had fully rendered models and art in the game ready to go. Flash takes care of a lot of collaboration tasks for you, but it won't figure out your production pipeline, that still takes some work (although yes, I think it's easier than PS3 development).Larry Kyralahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14610145189818875357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-86997141174260941212009-07-28T23:54:23.893-07:002009-07-28T23:54:23.893-07:00Hi Danc,
Something that you may want to consider ...Hi Danc,<br /><br />Something that you may want to consider for viable monetary sources for Flash - Smartphones and Google Chrome OS. I wrote a bit about it here on my blog and would appreciate your thoughts and feedback on it:<br />http://lostgarden.com/2009/07/flash-love-letter-2009-part-1.html<br /><br />Thanks!<br />PaoloGameDivinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02829700808326396995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-23732014549100974182009-07-24T13:32:40.775-07:002009-07-24T13:32:40.775-07:00This article had lots of valuable information and ...This article had lots of valuable information and insights into monetization of flash games. <br /><br />I disagree with the fact that 'Flash Developers' make beer money. I know a lot of full time flash game developers who make quite a bit of money from their profession. :)<br /><br />I also agree with EmilyG 100%. There are large portals who value the end user experience. A great example of this is Kongregate. <br /><br />IMHO, I hope Kongregate does not support MochiCoins/HeyZap or any other 3rd party system. I say this not to discredit these companies but to respect the time and effort Kongregate has put into their system. (Kreds) This also does not account for the $100,000's they have spent building their website and gaining the trust of people who visit their site.<br /><br />Their MT system (Kreds) allows users a full gaming experience on 1 site with 1 login. Kongregate has built up trust with its users and I expect that Kreds would have a much higher conversion rate than someone else's system.<br /><br />Lastly, It sounds like you lay insult and blame on the casual game space for a majority of portals controlling distribution. (BigFishGames, Reflexive, Etc)<br /><br />I have friends who develop Casual Games and getting your game on BFG/Reflexive/Etc will yield 100,000's in profit if your game is good. I highly doubt you would earn this same amount through self promotion. <br /><br />I look forward to your next article.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10449015099835107374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-38485691747785387722009-07-17T19:46:19.039-07:002009-07-17T19:46:19.039-07:00Amazing article and addresses a lot of the extreme...Amazing article and addresses a lot of the extremely important issues around running a business on Flash!Wazoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15184833234990496188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-50474052015543001152009-07-17T16:12:15.835-07:002009-07-17T16:12:15.835-07:00Excellent right-up! Keep em coming and look forwar...Excellent right-up! Keep em coming and look forward to the next part(s)The 1ntegerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977498670335717855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-91233194307331967912009-07-17T13:34:15.396-07:002009-07-17T13:34:15.396-07:00Tonio:
> write a game in JavaScript and it
&g...Tonio:<br /><br />> write a game in JavaScript and it <br />> will run on almost every <br />> conceivable platform<br /><br />sure, as long as you don't need reliably high performance, or audio, or video... basically, a great fit for, say, Zork.<br /><br />> require canvas and you're down to <br />> PCs, Macs, Linux boxes<br /><br />if they are running a very recent, non-MSFT browser, sure. IE still has, what, 60% market penetration though?<br /><br />C'mon, get real. JS+Canvas may be a good game delivery tool someday, but it sure as hell isn't today, unless you only care about a well-defined small subset of the web in general.Steven Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09931715800356740207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-8439644627596976132009-07-15T01:06:11.200-07:002009-07-15T01:06:11.200-07:00This is the most valuable article I have ever read...This is the most valuable article I have ever read from you. Thank you so much.Greg Liebermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083153987589335224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-66036372830744772752009-07-14T22:56:00.765-07:002009-07-14T22:56:00.765-07:00It's kind of depressing that you're using ...It's kind of depressing that you're using advertising terms and concepts to describe the monetization options open to Flash game developers ("call to action"). Low-end web advertising is a volume game, and it's not one game developers want to be in. Some people will do well, but it's like having "win American Idol" as a business plan.<br /><br />The problem is that, fundamentally, the way to make money off games is to *sell them* -- or sell the service of making more games (e.g. advergames where an advertiser hires you to build a game for up-front money, vs. the whiff of impression revenue).<br /><br />Flash as a game development platform is actually *remarkably terrible* in almost all respects except target platform. Despite being at version 10, Flash remains a comparatively unproductive platform to build games in relative to, say, shockwave (to pick an older example) or unity (to pick a newer) -- both of which let you (for example) build animated assets in a decent tool (versus Flash which sucks even for drawing beziers) and import them directly without jumping backwards through hoops -- shockwave and unity have poor penetration, but in no other respect are they inferior to Flash.<br /><br />The *only* killer feature of Flash is target platform -- and I'd suggest that JavaScript + Canvas is a better target platform than Flash (and a more productive development platform) -- write a game in JavaScript and it will run on almost every conceivable platform; require canvas and you're down to ... what ... only iPhones, Pres, late model Nokias, Androids, current gen game consoles, PCs, Macs, Linux boxes?Toniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14415968649466168326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-1340938469566055262009-07-14T19:58:31.222-07:002009-07-14T19:58:31.222-07:00Thank you for effort and the insight.Thank you for effort and the insight.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11186095931249380232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-19094355399885957772009-07-12T10:47:06.714-07:002009-07-12T10:47:06.714-07:00Axcho, that's what I was thinking. Complete t...Axcho, that's what I was thinking. Complete transparency would be a must. It would be best to consider developers almost as business partners with a focus on the mutual success of everyone involved. There would have to be a fine balance between freedom and interdependence. Anybody should be able to have the opportunity to join in with a new game of their own design while at the same time helping to support each other. It would have to be a community focused on success -- helping each other to best monetize the games being made.<br /><br />If I had money to invest and the business knowhow I probably would have attempted to create such a site already, but I'm not really in much of a position to attempt it.SlawDoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13318713399837983918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-79239512026351369812009-07-12T08:47:43.133-07:002009-07-12T08:47:43.133-07:00Accelerators are neither always good or always bad...Accelerators are neither always good or always bad. Your player's reaction to accelerators depends on the type of game, the social implications of usage, the individual player's past experience and the expectations that you set as the leader of the community. <br /><br />Some typically irritable players: <br />- Players of zero-sum competitive games <br />- People who feel that their status in the community is threatened by 'upstarts' who didn't follow the same path as they did. <br />- Players who come from previous 'hard core' games where such tools weren't used. "It's unnatural!" <br /><br />On the flip side, other players simply see accelerators as tools that can purchase that help them enjoy the game more. <br /><br />Some styles of game a non-controversial In single player RPG style games, accelerators tend not to upset anyone. In general games where player play in parallel and one person's advancement doesn't hurt others directly are good candidates for accelerators. <br /><br />Ultimately it comes down to community norms. If it is standard and always was standard in Kingdom of Loathing for items to have in-game effects, the majority of players will accept it without comment. Sure there will be a small minority that complain, but in *any* community there are going to be small minority that complain. Often this a customer service and messaging issue, not just a core game design issue. <br /><br />There's a concept in business about firing your customers. If you have someone who doesn't pay you, who complains incessantly taking up substantial customer support time, and disturbs your other customers...you have a choice. You can keep pouring money into that person. Or you can send them to a competitor. <br /><br />It sounds harsh, but game developers often need to decide who their customer should be and then optimize the experience for that person, not for all players (no matter how vocal) <br /><br />take care<br />Danc.Daniel Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10437870541630835660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-76366648302786853422009-07-12T07:32:53.448-07:002009-07-12T07:32:53.448-07:00On the whole, I think it's a great article. Ho...On the whole, I think it's a great article. However, I have one small objection to the bit about monetization.<br /><br />If you offer "accelerators" or other things that let people get ahead in your game, then you're basically letting players cheat for money. Some people might find this cheating objectionable. For example, I would never donate money to Kingdom of Loathing, because they always give items that have in-game effects; I don't want to be seen as a cheater.<br /><br />Of course, this only applies to the "accelerators", not other strategies like content gates.John Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17813593224618572349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-84926500996973235022009-07-11T17:58:44.514-07:002009-07-11T17:58:44.514-07:00I really like that idea, SlawDog. What do you thin...I really like that idea, SlawDog. What do you think would be the best way to get something like that started?<br /><br />Maybe all the revenue and expenses could be easily visible by anyone, so it becomes more of a co-op thing than a big pyramid.axchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00476494070603611505noreply@blogger.com