tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post4936755850835367521..comments2023-11-03T01:45:11.288-07:00Comments on Lost Garden: Plagiarism as a moral choiceDaniel Cookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10437870541630835660noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-77890969778284601812012-09-09T02:32:04.990-07:002012-09-09T02:32:04.990-07:00One point that could probably be interesting to di...One point that could probably be interesting to dig deeper is my impression that boardgamers have a better memory than videogamers. You wonder why why do players claim that Steambirds is like Wings of War. Well, some of the comments I quoted about WoW as a clear derivation of WoW come from www.boardgamegeek.com (and there are several more I did not quote). Here there are still many fond players not only of Crimson Sky but of such games Blue Max (1983), Dawn Patrol/Fight in the Sky (1982/1966), Ace of Aces (1980) and other similarly themed games, besides other pre-plotted movement ones. I can agree that casual players can comment about similarities just thinking to the last success, but if in such a community all comments quoted Wings of War and no other games when announcing Steambirds, I'd suspect that there is actually some ground for that and it is not just a matter of short memory or last impressions. More details on BGG itself, where I saw that you posted too:<br />http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10004278#10004278<br />As for your final note, I agree that usually a strict boardgame port to computer tends to not do as well as one that is rethinked for the new media - Civilization is a good example, having had both and with the second being the one reaching big success. But it is also an example of how a derivative computer game can owe so much to the boardgame that inspired it. Anyway, I see several recent successes of boardgame quite strict portings and I hope that more will follow.<br />Back to WoW and SB, and to make it short, I will only add that I appreciate the spirit of the article you posted in this page. But the past tendency of your team not to quote sources and to minimize the consequence of cloning did not win my sympathy. I had no problems to name the games inspiring my work in articles and interviews, whie I see SB's roots usuyally quoted as "obscure boardgames" at best. Besides Andy' reticency to name them, I also noted a post on his blog where he admits that his earliest tech-test prototypes were indeed very much boardgame clones, but that this is not a serious problem since they were several years old and they had a realistic, non fantasy settings:<br />http://www.andymoore.ca/2011/08/the-third-cloning-of-steambirds/<br />Of course I can not disagree more with him - if I will find time and will, I'll probably post an answer to him too. Nobody is responsible for his co-designer's opinions and I can see quite a big distance between yourt arguments and his, but overall I think that you can understand why I can have some cold feelings toward Steambirds. <br />Angiolillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529327568190843326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-25503358708360816732012-09-09T02:31:27.168-07:002012-09-09T02:31:27.168-07:00Thanks for your detailed answer.
WoW has been des...Thanks for your detailed answer. <br />WoW has been designed in February 2002, and released in March 2004. I am proud both of the many variants developed by the fans and of the influence it had on several other games (starting from when it was showed to would-be publishers at the Gama fair in March 2002, more than from its actual release date).<br />Some side notes that could contribute to the matters you talk about in your article. Please believe that I know about parallel developement, I even experienced it when both Domnique Ehrhard with Jumbo and me & P.G. Paglia (with Winning Moves) released a boardgame about Ulysses in 2001. Both with the basic concept of having only one pawn to move in the game: usually in boardgames each player has his own, but in these cases all players are gods and move the same toward different goals. Same identical concept in his Odysseus and in our Ulysses (but of course pretty different developements). If we were not sure that Mr. Ehrhard did not see our prototype in some publisher's booth when the prototype had been showed in previous fairs, and he being sure about us, it would have been a real problem (and still some heated words came from our agent to Jumbo, that actually saw and tested our game - but that's another story).<br />In this case "parallel" is a perfect metaphore, as far as timelines are concerned. Both Ehrhard and us worked at the same time, without crossing each other until the end. With the past I think that it is a less working image, lacking simultaneousness. To avoid "parallel" developement with a previous product, I have quite an opposite aptiutude than your "black box": my strategy is historical research. I understand the desire not to be influenced, but I fear more the risk to go unaware on somebody's else path, especially when - after deciding to go in a general direction, some decisions could become quite natural. As you say, "common solutions to common problems". So before designing my air combat games (Wings of War is the sixth after three boardgames, a web-based game and a choose-your-own-adventure gamebook) I did actually a study and a comparation of previous boardgames. A small part of this even appeared on the Italian Air Force magazine in the '90s. In this way I can see which solutions are similar to those of other games and which diverge, and so I can also honestly say that my design is different enough from previous games while "borrowing elements from the entire breadth of game history" and having "a half dozen influences from widely disparate games" to use your words. While I have always tried to check previous games when working on a new project, this year I have even seen this kind of practice suggested by the SAZ (the Germany-based Game Designers Association) in its "Code on Matters of Intellectual Property Rights": "Before a designer presents his game to a publisher, he/she should have made sure to the best of his/her knowledge and belief, that no other game on the market is alike or similar in its essential elements" then suggesting to contact designers of previous comparative works if discovered. You can see it at http://www.spieleautorenzunft.de/newsreader-en/items/with-the-code-on-matters-of-intellectual-property-rights-the-saz-wants-to-achieve-better-fair-play.html if you are curious.<br /><br />[To be continued]Angiolillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529327568190843326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-41406612889391031272012-09-07T18:04:39.369-07:002012-09-07T18:04:39.369-07:00Hi Andrea,
Andy has written that Wings of War was...Hi Andrea,<br /><br />Andy has written that Wings of War was an influence for his initial prototype. There was also a radial racing game he has mentioned in the past (also a board game) that was also an influence. Credit where credit is due. <br /><br />But we shouldn't stop there. Steambirds was also fundamentally influenced by the digital realm: Snake (the way that the gas trails work), the bombs of Every Extend Extra, and spline movement comes from research into on-object UI. The visuals and feedback systems hearken back to overhead shooters. <br /><br />Whatever Andy brought to the table changed quite substantially from the initial prototype. Adding an analog spline-base movement to a game all about movement tends to do that. As far as I understand, despite the thematic similarities, Wings of War does not have this as its base. <br /><br />As an aside about how complicated game lineage can get, a little history. Wings of War seems to have come out quite recently in 2004. A digital game called Critical Mass by Sean O’Connor actually bears a far closer resemblance to Steambirds (including all the 'unique' properties that you ascribe to Wings of War) came out in 1995. There are also a half dozen games in the genre including Crimson Skies (1998) and some horse racing and space-based variants from even earlier. <br /><br />Sadly, neither I nor Andy played these other games before or during the development of the original Steambirds. As I’ve mentioned, I tend to black box my design efforts and avoid playing anything vaguely similar. That way there is ample opportunity for the design to naturally diverge. I was shocked to see how similar Critical Mass was since it uses the same key UI innovation as Steambirds despite neither of us knowing about the game. I wouldn't have believed it unless it happened to me, but there is such a thing as parallel invention in game design. It is a very strange feeling to remember the exact moment of thinking up the movement system for Steambirds and to have spent multiple iterations getting it right only to find out that someone else had come up with the same solution 15 years earlier. Sometimes, even when you are hoping for divergence, there are common solutions to common problems. <br /><br />With all this past history in mind, why do players claim that Steambirds is like Wings of War? If I understand correctly, WoW is the most popular board game in the genre released in recent years. People have a classic tendency to ignore differences and rely on simile for describing games. Triple Town for example is both 'like Bejeweled' or 'like Farmville' depending on who I’m talking to. For people who have only played Wings of War, it is the closest predecessor they can imagine for Steambirds. <br /><br />I do try to be open about my development process and my influences. Ideally this note helps shine some more light on the past. Success always has many parents and I think you should be proud of the influence that Wings of War has had upon the genre. I hope however that you do not bear an ongoing grudge due to the belief that Wing of War was the only or even the predominant influence on Steambirds. It was not. <br /><br />BTW, JeffinBerlin asked earlier about the transfer of designs between board games and computer games. James Ernest and I have been chatting about this lately. My personal opinion is that it is far, far harder than one might imagine. Computer games are very much toys where pacing, simulation, feedback, progression and interface issues dominate. Even when games are mechanically in the same general universe, a strict boardgame port tends to not do as well as one that is reimagined from the ground up for the computer. <br /><br />All the best, <br />Danc. Daniel Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10437870541630835660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-28239321510657880072012-09-07T07:44:56.839-07:002012-09-07T07:44:56.839-07:00Hello.
Being the designer of Wings of War, I firs...Hello.<br /><br />Being the designer of Wings of War, I first heard of Steambird when a gamer for a British boardgame club wrote to tell me about such a similar game. You had told that one day Andy Moore played Wings of War at PAX and then showed you the prototype. This gamer suggested that we could then get in contact so that you could directly license the boardgame for a fully faithful online version. I forwarded the suggestion to my publisher.<br /><br />Of course I first checked Steambirds and I found that the turn-based sequence, the absence of a hex- or square-grid (even a concealed one as I used in an old dogfight videogame of mine), the use of arrows for planned paths, the presence of a cone of fire (not so natural for fixed forward-firing machineguns that should just fire straight), the lack of hit point localization (most boardgame simulation localize hits to wings/fuselage/tail/engine instead than keeping them in a common pool as WoW and as SB seems to do), the special damages, the lack of altitude made it feel a steampunk version of WoW mor than of any other boardgame.<br /><br />True that examining any game you can probably say: for this mechanic, the designer choosed the same solution of the designer of Game A. For this other mechanic, of the game B. For this other, of the game C. Hard to invent anything really new. This is what I also found in your invitation to finish a game with "a half dozen influences from widely disparate games". In interviews and speeches, I actually quoted many boardgames as sources of inspirations for this or that detail of my game. But with SB, many designer's choices that could had several different solutions reminded me in the end of WoW (a declared source of Andy's inspiration by the way) instead than of other boardgames. Even in points where WoW went against the mainstream solutions chosen by other air simulations. I also had the feeling that if I could see SB's internal mechanics, for example how damages are assigned with each shoot, more similarities could most probably come out.<br /><br />Of course I suspected that my opinion could be biased, being personally involved, but I quickly noticed that I was not the only one to feel that way. I saw unknown boardgamers starting to post the new of SB's reelease around with comments as "SteamBirds plays like the basic rules game of Wings of War", "For those that like Wings of War here is a nice flash version of the game", "a flash game which...oh let's be nice and say that it's ''heavily influenced'' by Dawn of War" (being the name of WW2 Wings of War), "A bit too much like Wings of War", or directly calling Steambird "Online Wings of War", just to quote the first comments I have at hand in English.<br /><br />To make it short, I find similarities between WoW and SB going quite further than just being two "turn-based aerial combat games with radial movement" as you say. Using your own words, and from what I read around, to many players SB feels more like a "close imitation" than "a brand new games built out of familiar pieces". I am glad that you are now supporting the cause of sparklingly original creative persons, but with the release of SB I must say that its staff built a quite different images of itself. At least to the eyes of several gamers.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Andrea AngiolinoAngiolillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529327568190843326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-76703793470728208122012-09-07T03:21:46.382-07:002012-09-07T03:21:46.382-07:00Steambirds is very much part of a genre of games i...Steambirds is very much part of a genre of games involving radial movement stretching back at least 20 years or further. A good question to ask is if there is a single source. Neither WoW nor Steambirds can claim to be the first of this odd little sub-genre. Nor will they be the last. <br /><br />If you compare Steambirds & Wings of War (which I still haven't played...I tend to blackbox my design process) you'll see that the movement system, damage resolution system, interface for controlling the planes, the pacing, scoring and various powerups are different. Are there similarities? Certainly...both are turn-based aerial combat games with radial movement. To put that in context, chess is a turn-based ground combat game with grid-based movement. Lots of options are possible there without being a copy of chess. The same goes with radial movement; it is a broad and poorly explored design space. <br /><br />I do like to think that Steambirds added a number of things new to the mix...in the context of this article, it is somewhere between stages 3 (adding) and 4 (synthesis). I certainly wouldn't call it a grand new invention. Evolution of designs is a natural part of how our industry improves and riffs off games. However, while it is fine to stand on the shoulders of giants, the moral designer will use this progress to reach for new heights. <br /><br />It is worth noting that while there is indeed a gray area that many love to wallow in, plagiarism is typically a wholesale lifting of systems. When you can actually match up numbers between two games and they work identically, there is a clear issue. <br /><br />take care, <br />Danc. Daniel Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10437870541630835660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-71135248623600564192012-09-07T01:09:23.709-07:002012-09-07T01:09:23.709-07:00This is an interesting article and discussion on a...This is an interesting article and discussion on a subject that I have been researching for the boardgame community for some time, with the hopes of publishing an article by the end of the year.<br /><br />It certainly is nothing new in the boardgame market, either, and the majority of designs fall into the varying shades of gray area between "incomparably innovative" and "plagiarism", with only a few examples of the extremes every few years. Charles Darrow borrowed heavily from Elizabeth Maggie's "The Landlords' Game," for example, and other popular board games such as Sorry!, Ludo and Parcheesi are simply variants of the 1500-year-old Indian game Pachisi (interestingly enough, the makers of the German variant of the game, Mensch aergert dich nicht!, were claiming that these other versions were plagiarism of their design).<br /><br />The problem with the grey area is that most designers who start pointing the finger there will, very suddenly, find that fingers can justifiably be pointed back at them. As an example, it has been brought to my attention during my research for my article that Steambirds was designed after the developer played the board game Wings of War at a convention, and borrows heavily from that design. I would be interested to hear your comments on that, and also, on the topic of borrowing from different types of media (analog to electronic, or electronic to analog), and how that can also be a form of disguised copying.<br /><br />I look forward to reading your thoughts.Jeffrey Allershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17341623048476483612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-2492687278712249552012-01-30T12:26:03.787-08:002012-01-30T12:26:03.787-08:00Yes. Danc is correct. Again.Yes. Danc is correct. Again.the darklordehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13644173107446916464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-43247729372726421262012-01-27T21:23:08.499-08:002012-01-27T21:23:08.499-08:00"Most (though not all) of these comments make..."Most (though not all) of these comments make me sad. Just because there is a fuzzy line between wholesale copying of the majority of innovative systems in a game and being inspired by a key concept does not mean that the line doesn't exist. That's just looking for loopholes and ignoring the argument being made."<br /><br />I disagree. A "fuzzy line" is a contradiction in terms. You're talking about a continuum, but using the language of absolutist, black-and-white thinking. It's a pretty common mistake when talking about something you feel strongly about. It's still misleading, so when you get comments that are misguided, you shouldn't be surprised.<br /><br />I don't think there's anything wrong with copying as such. If there were, nobody would be able to use Experience Points as such. You distinguish between "copying" and "evolving" a design, but the stages you've outlined are idealized. Most developers will go through them out of order, visit some of them repeatedly, others never. If, in the attempt, they end up with a World of Warcraft to some other game's EverQuest, are they plagiarists or just "evolvers"? There is no particular feature of WoW's design that EQ didn't do first, but the implementation was more competent. Same deal for Saint's Row to Grand Theft Auto. Same deal for Okami to Zelda.<br /><br />You'd say that those are evolutions and not copies. Ain't that just because they're good? Saint's Row looks and feels a lot like GTA, but it's got some extra character customization and convenience features that turned out to make the game a lot more fun for some people. Okami is Zelda with a much more interesting art style and, well, different items than usual. These games are derivative, and they don't really try to hide it, although you won't find citations within the game as such--if you want to argue for that, I'm with you. But if you're arguing that excessive derivativeness is unacceptable, then you're casting a wide net that will also include a lot of honest attempts to make an Okami to some old Zelda, but which happened to fail.<br /><br />Maybe your anger would be better directed towards business practices like those of Zynga, where the alleged developer doesn't even hire designers as we know them, and "outsources" that work to some guy like yourself.ZeSpechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00466317991259434260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-69141330154995303882012-01-26T07:14:05.711-08:002012-01-26T07:14:05.711-08:00Wow, this article completely misrepresents the def...Wow, this article completely misrepresents the definition of plagiarism. Daniel Cook left a very good reply to clear that up.<br /><br />Suffice it to say that copying without attribution is plagiarism.<br /><br />Most everything of value in society has been a part of an evolution: an iterative process of improvement. If the original innovator of a concept does not want people to iterate on his/her ideas then they shouldn't publish their ideas -- they should explore them as much as they want before they release them. <br /><br />Ideas, in my view, once released into the wild, are untamable by the original author, and are free to be explored, iterated and evolved into new ideas by everyone. Daniel Cook's cites science as a corollary, and I think this is exactly right.Xanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17081632271222733705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-81310081309671101462012-01-26T07:05:32.976-08:002012-01-26T07:05:32.976-08:00This is an important discussion but I can't ge...This is an important discussion but I can't get past the "I'll know it when I see it" flavor of it all. Dan, your Hierarchy of Stages is maybe in the right order viewed through the specific lens of Design but not for Game Development as a whole. Great games are (always?) a mixture of all these stages and in fact I suspect Stages 2 and 3 (based on existing designs) have been as important to the forwarding of game development and the player experience as has been Stage 5 (new design).<br /><br />From my own past, I’m wondering how you would view Rise of Nations. Key design changes over previous RTS games that made it into the final: national borders, formations, all of history (a concept Stainless Steel Studios simultaneously developed for Empire Earth), a procedural strategic game. Yet, outside of the major things we looked to change, some of which never worked out, it was very similar to Age of Empires and the RTS games that proceeded it. On the whole, I feel good about the game. I think it brought improvements to the genre and, in a rising tide lifts all boats kind of way, it’s existence did not detract from the games or people that influenced it.<br /><br />I wonder if trademark law doesn’t provide a good method of evaluating this problem. Essentially, are the people who buy a game confused by its pedigree or not? Some percentage of people confused Rise of Nations with the next Age of Empires (and probably purchased it because of that confusion). It probably wasn’t a large percentage but maybe it reflects the degree to which our “hands were dirty” in this regard. It’s worth noting that the names, both of which were approved by publisher Microsoft, didn’t help clarity but MS was presumably fine with that. <br /><br />Here at sparkypants, we were wondering if appropriate credit wouldn’t also go a long way. If standard credits contained a section for inspirations, that would be an interesting seachange. Look and feel that cuts too close to home will always be confusing and there is some actual legal protection there. The bigger your design differs from other games, the less confusion there will be. The more known the game you are branching from is, the less confusion there will presumably be. In cases where you are borrowing from lesser known ideas in their infancy, this way of thinking should encourage you to steer clear and, when you do borrow, give the original clear credit.<br /><br />Good stuff to ponder.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />JJason Colemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08730703535632254134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-5550365397736324522012-01-25T10:52:47.069-08:002012-01-25T10:52:47.069-08:00There is a big difference between plagiarism and t...There is a big difference between plagiarism and take something as reference for another concept or to improve a new game core idea. I do agree when Daniel says: " Most professional game developers are also professional plagiarists".<br /><br />What to say about this famous Zynga's way?? <br /><br />http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-25-zynga-blasted-after-launching-tiny-tower-clone<br /><br />Thanks Daniel for this nice article. =]Adriana Keihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17254661289598280445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-60863877630346880092012-01-09T11:18:02.745-08:002012-01-09T11:18:02.745-08:00To respond to Daniel Cooks original response that ...To respond to Daniel Cooks original response that plagiarism is found in research... That could not be further from the truth. There are economic barriers set up specifically so that products that are new and inventive cannot be copied. If a new drug is developed by me that cures the common cold, and I release it in the West US, and you take my drug and add cherry flavor to it and release it in the East, I could successfully sue you for a lot of money.<br /><br />Academic works that are not consumer products are not comparable because there is no money to be lost if one builds on another as long as credit is given, because credit is the only thing the original writer is looking for, not profit. Games are products.Lyslehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17124733255448699345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-56498163391908513382012-01-04T03:37:11.042-08:002012-01-04T03:37:11.042-08:00In the academic world, plagiarism by students is a...In the academic world, plagiarism by students is a very serious offense that can result in punishments such as a failing grade on the particular assignment (typically at the high school level) or for the course (typically at the college or university level).<a href="http://www.computervalley.ca/" rel="nofollow">Desktop computer</a>Derlierprossyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14666582080338295072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-22041519196859094982011-12-22T17:55:22.643-08:002011-12-22T17:55:22.643-08:00I haven't played either Steambirds or Steam Pi...I haven't played either Steambirds or Steam Pirates, but just looking at the screenshots, it really is appalling what a blatant ripoff it appears to be. Based on the comments here, that does seem to be the case.<br /><br />What is fascinating to me, in the comments and in the article, is the degree to which people value different aspects of a game. Danc's article is really about plagiarizing game mechanics: "Changing out the graphics or giving the game a new plot are the most common tweaks because they are easily decoupled without damaging the delicate dynamics of play." As a game designer, it is not surprising that Danc values mechanics/design.<br /><br />On the other hand, you have Troy's comment: "Actual theft of *content*, of execution, sure, that's a moral issue. For example, if someone steals code, data, art, sounds. But stealing an idea (the design) and executing on it?"<br /><br />I think this is the more common sentiment, that content has priority over design. At least, it does seem to be the case that blatantly ripping off a game's artwork is going to get you into more trouble than blatantly ripping off a game's design.<br /><br />What I think Danc might be discounting is that a large number of gamers, especially in the casual/social space, think this way as well. What he describes as "cosmetic tweaks" is what defines the game to many players. You are left with the situation where many people might not give Steambirds a chance (because of the aesthetics/theme), but if you throw some pirates in there, hey that looks like fun! Same thing with adding a story, more polish, etc.<br /><br />The insane proliferation of Angry Birds merchandise is what really got me thinking about this. I've played the game a little, and it is decently fun, but the mechanics are very familiar to me from games such as Tank Wars or Scorched Earth (there are probably dozens more). But what people care about are the birds (and the pigs)! Orders of magnitude more people are playing this game because it features cute birds instead of cannonballs. And apparently they are buying huge quantities of merchandise. I have to wonder if the people buying all that stuff have even played the game. <br /><br />Unfortunately, from the average gamer's point of view, plagiarizing game design has a positive effect. As was mentioned, it provides clones that fill an unmet need, such as for theme or platform. You do end up with more people experiencing a particular game design than you would otherwise.<br /><br />I am not sure what the solution is. The only thing I can really think of is to target an audience that really appreciates great game design, not just the theme/characters/story/etc. I guess that's just another way of saying that if your target market is small enough, nobody will bother to copy you. But I guess that really doesn't help when it comes to profits.Zomboehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10327748322888102091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-59658042313228073222011-12-21T08:57:16.676-08:002011-12-21T08:57:16.676-08:00@Takezo Working really hard to get a mobile versi...@Takezo Working really hard to get a mobile version of Triple Town out the door as soon as possible. Games like the clone you found are a kick in the teeth. :-( <br /><br />take care,<br />Danc.Daniel Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10437870541630835660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-31623483499282053932011-12-21T07:31:19.718-08:002011-12-21T07:31:19.718-08:00Just found a blatant TripleTown knockoff in the iO...Just found a blatant TripleTown knockoff in the iOS app store. Seems directly copied from the Facebook version (f2p, move limited). I won't link to it so they don't get any additional attention.<br /><br />Please put out a real version! I'd love to pay up front and be able to play without limits like with my (much loved) Kindle version.Takezohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13825350718416675795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-79369541386434768462011-12-07T13:27:41.556-08:002011-12-07T13:27:41.556-08:00Being one of those who, due to life circumstances,...Being one of those who, due to life circumstances, is forced to settle for less creative output, I have never and will never rip off the creative works of others to fill in this gap.Guruchildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09392551650381052581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-40119233380079514622011-12-05T02:00:31.955-08:002011-12-05T02:00:31.955-08:00I think this is a really great article. I also agr...I think this is a really great article. I also agree with the sentiment and was delighted to find that the article ended with not only a positive feeling but some genuinely useful advice on how to break from being a wage slave.<br /><br />But I do have sympathy for anyyone who has givven up their creativity in order to pay rent/food etc.. <br />Some of us are fortunate to have support of family, or had early success with our career and that allows us to coast on lower wages while we follow our creative path, but others have struggled and persevered to get to the point of wage slave.<br /><br />Without knowing someone's background it is wrong to assume they have not fulfilled their potential because we don't know what problems they have already overcome. I do agree completely that following ones creative potential is the most rewarding life but we must hold back from criticising those that, upon first impressions, seem to have settled for less.SmoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358804206401200996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-83461047833153710732011-12-02T08:05:09.498-08:002011-12-02T08:05:09.498-08:00I love all the Spry Fox games. However, the fact ...I love all the Spry Fox games. However, the fact that I can't play Triple Town on my droid means that, as a customer, I would welcome a copy. If/when the actual Spry Fox game came to that platform, I would purchase that as well, because I KNOW that Spry Fox innovates and would continue to add feature/functionality to a game that I love. I would make due though, happily, with the clone in the interim.Garryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15065281209928103141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-33220891574802796992011-11-30T23:38:58.967-08:002011-11-30T23:38:58.967-08:00Hey Dan, I'm very sorry to hear that someone i...Hey Dan, I'm very sorry to hear that someone is actively seeking to clone triple town. This happened to me many years ago... the plagiarizer even stole my backgrounds and painted over them. <br /><br />I love our industry, but there are lots of thorns. Maybe you can find a strategy to turn the clones into an asset?Amaranthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13255835520556332276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-46676099706265798142011-11-30T22:59:38.324-08:002011-11-30T22:59:38.324-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Amaranthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13255835520556332276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-82130169113477295652011-11-24T21:33:48.710-08:002011-11-24T21:33:48.710-08:00Whether anyone agrees with what you said, this is ...Whether anyone agrees with what you said, this is an excellent post and it really makes me think. I'd also like to believe it's made anyone else who read it think.<br /><br />My only criticism is that once again, you're too wordy. Condense!Guruchildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09392551650381052581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-20665547408735989322011-11-24T06:14:58.896-08:002011-11-24T06:14:58.896-08:00Minecraft and it's clones.... That really is a...Minecraft and it's clones.... That really is a terrible example to use, given it's origins (Infiniminer).<br /><br />There's also the fact that Minecraft has been extremely slow to move to other platforms, even given their near-infinite stockpile of cash, leaving the huge demand for that style of game on consoles and mobile devices.<br /><br />Also, the success of Minecraft has spawned a new genre, really, the 'voxgame' or 'build-em-up'. And whilst I'm fed up of seeing almost every indie developer on the planet coding a minecraft-style-engine, it will be interesting to see how the genre develops!bluescrnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01624096305758464482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-82975287527752864372011-11-23T12:59:43.826-08:002011-11-23T12:59:43.826-08:00What's the bottom line? Let's start with t...What's the bottom line? Let's start with that.<br /><br />Do we hand a billion dollar venture company's investing decisions to the new hire with crazy ideas (that <i>just might</i> work!) or to the old foggy with no inspiration (but 'tried' and 'true' are kept in his back pocket)?<br /><br />You hand them to your proven, in <b>all</b> cases. Why? Because while some crazy ideal-maker might have founded the company, spurred innovation, their legacy is survived by conformists.<br />Consider all technological advances. Everywhere in science we gain new understanding through people who first learned to imitate those who came before. Is art no different? Are we not taught appreciation for Picasso, daVinci? Those will a calling to innovate follow the same trends of first imitating, regardless of the industry or walk of life.<br /><br />It's a tall order to claim that more innovation needs to be achieved, and that any semblance (90%?) of copying is plagiarism and is to be shunned.<br /><br />Remember that as humans, we are first and foremost creatures of imitation. Our first words are formed by studying sounds around us and judging reactions to the imitations we attempt. Perhaps after drawing 100 imitations to perfection, a mistake is made, and that mistake is deemed beautiful, and the birth of innovation can commence. We are first imitators, however.<br /><br />Companies don't care about your (third person) passion. And they shouldn't! They care about your ability to be a force multiplier to someone else's passion in the company. Ideas are a dime a dozen, as is a desire to implement ones own. By asking for people to first conform, acting as extensions of another idea, you are able to judge the ability to withstand adverse situations. After proving oneself, <i>then</i> perhaps they deserve our attention, funding, conformists of their own.<br /><br />Clearly, any work of art asks for both creativity and drudging routine. I cannot retain sanity through routine without adding a twist of my own to the vision of another. I cannot achieve anything creative without the self-discipline and application to see it through, hell or high water.<br />But 90% application 10% creativity sounds about what it should be.Ahtchuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02137426873819158649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11719805.post-58577196471161247482011-11-23T10:30:38.123-08:002011-11-23T10:30:38.123-08:00Plagiarism is necessary. Progress implies it.
The...Plagiarism is necessary. Progress implies it.<br /><br />The comments are right to point out that there is nothing here to define the imaginary line alluded to, between which plagiarism is proper and which is improper. What percentage of copying should be considered acceptable?<br /><br />The arrival of minecraft clones on XBLA is cited as an example which stops the "original innovator" from being able to "recoup the cost of the initial invention."<br /><br />Can you really mean minecraft, a game itself heavily derivative of others like dwarffortress and infiniminer, which had negligible development costs and made its developer millions? As a symbol of the impoverished original developer beset upon by parasites?<br /><br />I think the problem you have defining the line is because the line does not exist in the act of copying or not copying.<br /><br />There are plagues in this industry, but the willingness to copy is not one of them. Those who position themselves as gatekeepers, like Apple and Facebook, in order to tax and limit the marketplace for games have far more blame for the ease with which games developed in the spirit of Business outperform games developed in the spirit of Play.<br /><br />It is only through the construction of such an edifice between developers and players that the copying you object to can become institutionalized.FARTRONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09718470173833312734noreply@blogger.com